Also why are we punishing the Russian citizens for the actions of the government

We’re not punishing the citizens, we’re punishing the government systems they use to make those payments so the citizens are more likely to take action like protest against their government instead of just saying “not my problem”

Thrusting millions of people into poverty through economic strangulation is in fact targeting its citizens. It is delusional, calloused, and dangerous to suggest otherwise. It also almost always does not work. The US stealing 3.5 billion in Afghan assets and sanctioning Afghanistan hasn’t led to the people rising up and overthrowing the Taliban. It’s led to millions more people being plunged into poverty to the point that thousands of parents are having to sell their own organs to keep their children fed. Even if you think that the end result IS a popular uprising that result is reached through intentional mass emmiseration.

Giving into Putin’s demands not only lets him win and signals he can do whatever he wishes in Europe but also puts other countries into danger and strips Ukraine of it’s independent decisions about their own country. It’s not an option, nor does UKRAINE want it. You should not let your hate for US make you give in to Russia instead.

Ukraine is an obsession to Putin, this isn’t just about NATO or US. Putin considers Ukraine a fellow sibling country of Russia, and he’s scared that the democratic rise in Ukraine will then spread to Russia and thus plunge Putin down. NATO is partly just an excuse, like the “nazis in power”. Putin is scared over his own position and wants to eliminate what he sees as a dangerous democratic uprising before it gets to him. He won’t stop until he’s gotten Ukraine under his thumb.

And so Putin is obsessed with Ukraine, wants his name down in history books next to Stalin at whatever price. I know, the russian people are not to blame for it, it’s wrong they have to suffer. But we’re out of options that doesn’t include escalating war or giving up. We are already targeting the rich people there too, hoping they’d pressure Putin to give up, targeting their businesses and money sources. That might not work either. What else are we to do? Just shake finger at Russia? Nuke the country? Silently look other way? What? There IS NO good way out of war, that’d not result in innocent casualties, not when the war has been started by a delusional dictator.

I feel like this whole argument isn’t taking into account WHY Russians can’t do these things. Russians can’t pay for all of that because a number of Russian banks have been cut off from SWIFT which is a system that sets up financial transactions internationally.  

Yes cutting Russia’s access to SWIFT means that the Russian people can’t pay for Netflix, but it also means that the Russian Government suddenly has a lot less options to conduct the financial transactions they can use to prolong this invasion.

Like yes it sucks a lot that this hurts a lot of ordinary people, but well, people are inexorably tied with the government of the country in which they live.

It’s also SUPER interesting that this discussion is being framed as “Russian people can’t use Netflix or Spotify” and not “the US and EU are systematically reducing  Russia’s ability to financially maintain this invasion.”